Confused about things

[Unca]

Okay as already seen on the NC thread I hadnt been able to keep it very well...the longest being 4 days!

Well today is the fourth day and I havent contacted her.

Basically had a run in with her on Wednesday night where she was being picked up by a "male friend"...and then didnt go home from work. I took all her things that were in my house down to her parents where she is staying (including her wedding dress) which is how I knwo she didnt go home and had told her dad she wouldnt be in after work.

I txt her on Thursday to say that i would be in the house on my own for the next two weeks if she wanted to talk and that if I hadnt heard from her by this friday i would start the divorce. i also found out that night that she had been seen having drinks with the same guy picking her up the week before.

So far I havent heard anything at all...not a peep.

I'm confused. When I gave her my ring on Wednesday she seemed genuinely shocked and surprised that i was giving her it. She's also never mentioned divorce, even after I mentioned it a few weeks back.

I've also discovered that she is checking my bebo page whenever she goes online...which again, if she cared as little as she says she does, why is she doing that?

So do I go ahead with the divorce if I havent heard from her by the end of the week? I really dont want to. In fact it scares me that I will no longer have my wife. But at the same time I want to show her that I'm serious.

I think last week was some sort of closure on the the whole thing. yes I cried that night, but I havent really felt "down" since then. Dont get me wrong, I havent felt happy, but I havent felt like my heart has been ripped out of my chest!

I am concentrating on myself...I've been out and about today with friends, and already got dinner lined up with a nice attractive single girl tomorrow night. Got a get together with friends on wednesday and possibly Thursday. And I know I'm not going to dwell on her...my mind hasnt been in the same place that it was for the past month since we split up.

I am doing the things that I want to do. sorting myself out. But i cant help thinking about things every now and again because i am really confused about her.

But hey ho....day 4 is now done...onto day 5! :)

[tiggerinlondon]

Originally Posted by Unca

Okay as already seen on the NC thread I hadnt been able to keep it very well...the longest being 4 days!

Well today is the fourth day and I havent contacted her.

Well done, you are already doing better than you ever have before then.

Originally Posted by Unca

Basically had a run in with her on Wednesday night where she was being picked up by a "male friend"...and then didnt go home from work. I took all her things that were in my house down to her parents where she is staying (including her wedding dress) which is how I knwo she didnt go home and had told her dad she wouldnt be in after work.

I txt her on Thursday to say that i would be in the house on my own for the next two weeks if she wanted to talk and that if I hadnt heard from her by this friday i would start the divorce. i also found out that night that she had been seen having drinks with the same guy picking her up the week before.

Friday, you've set a deadline. A point of closure, from which point onwards you can get on with your life instead of waiting for her in limbo? It seems sensible to me.

Originally Posted by Unca

So far I havent heard anything at all...not a peep.

I'm confused. When I gave her my ring on Wednesday she seemed genuinely shocked and surprised that i was giving her it. She's also never mentioned divorce, even after I mentioned it a few weeks back.

I've also discovered that she is checking my bebo page whenever she goes online...which again, if she cared as little as she says she does, why is she doing that?

Did you expect to hear anything? Is she the stubborn type? Would she "cut off her nose to spite her face? Why is she checking your page? A better question would be why are you wondering about her reasons? Either she wants to be with you and work it out or she doesn't. It's not that hard, "yes" or "no"? She's got till Friday and then if there isn't a "yes", then that defaults to a "no", because she couldn't make the effort to talk to you about the marriage or any way of saving it.

Originally Posted by Unca

So do I go ahead with the divorce if I havent heard from her by the end of the week? I really dont want to. In fact it scares me that I will no longer have my wife. But at the same time I want to show her that I'm serious.

I'm genuinely sorry it's gone this far. Do you go ahead with the divorce? What do you think? You say you don't want to, but what are your options otherwise? Have you sought counselling together? Would she even be willing to go? IMHO there has been NO EFFORT from her part, none. That concerns me. I mean, it seems she's seeing someone else, now whether that's a cry for attention or not; you can't keep waiting forever can you?

Whatever problems she has or needs to deal with doesn't she need to either let you in, as her partner or let you go? It appears that thus far, from all angles, she is getting on with her life, without you. You've drawn the line at which point the decision to keep you waiting is no longer hers, don't you think that's necessary?

Change is almost always a scary thing for any creature, humans especially are creatures of habit. I ask you to consider your language, you didn't type "It scares me that I'll lose the love of my life." what you typed was "It scares me that I will no longer have my wife." If I was to analyse that, I'd say you like the idea of marriage and having a wife, perhaps it's something you've wanted for a long time, you don't like the thought of losing it. It just might be that this person isn't the right person to have it with...

Originally Posted by Unca

I think last week was some sort of closure on the the whole thing. yes I cried that night, but I havent really felt "down" since then. Dont get me wrong, I havent felt happy, but I havent felt like my heart has been ripped out of my chest!

I am concentrating on myself...I've been out and about today with friends, and already got dinner lined up with a nice attractive single girl tomorrow night. Got a get together with friends on wednesday and possibly Thursday. And I know I'm not going to dwell on her...my mind hasnt been in the same place that it was for the past month since we split up.

I am doing the things that I want to do. sorting myself out. But i cant help thinking about things every now and again because i am really confused about her.

But hey ho....day 4 is now done...onto day 5! :)

I am comforted by what I'm reading, your focus is on you. You said you're concentrating on yourself. You've taken actions in your life to improve it and enjoy it, by going out. You've taken her out of your constant thoughts and put her into the occasional "wondering what's going to happen" box. That sounds promising.

If I understand your thinking (please correct me if I am wrong), you are hoping that divorce papers will give her a "kick in ass of reality". I'm tempted to agree with you.

I mean if she doesn't think you're serious, and that's why she doesn't bother to talk to you before Friday. Then being served those papers, might just be the slice of reality she needs. If she doesn't even respond to that, then surely either she doesn't have the capacity to understand what she's losing or she doesn't feel this marriage is right for her anymore. Is there some other possible reason for her not responding to save something that should mean a great deal to her?

[Unca]

Originally Posted by tiggerinlondon

You say you don't want to, but what are your options otherwise? Have you sought counselling together? Would she even be willing to go? IMHO there has been NO EFFORT from her part, none. That concerns me. I mean, it seems she's seeing someone else, now whether that's a cry for attention or not; you can't keep waiting forever can you?

No we havent sought councelling because she wouldnt speak to me about how she was feeling so there is no way she would speak to someone else. I have suggested it in the past but nothing ever came of it. But you are exactly right, there has been no effort from her part in the slightest. From what i can gather she has waited until someone showed her some attention and then decided to end it with me...its what she did the last time.

I ask you to consider your language, you didn't type "It scares me that I'll lose the love of my life." what you typed was "It scares me that I will no longer have my wife." If I was to analyse that, I'd say you like the idea of marriage and having a wife, perhaps it's something you've wanted for a long time, you don't like the thought of losing it.

Nothing gets past you does it? But I probably did word that wrongly. I wasnt too keen on the idea of marriage in the first place, but since becoming married I have realised that it is the bond that should keep married couples together. It is what should make couples want to fight to stay together. But i should have typed "the love of my life" because thats exactly what she is.

If I understand your thinking (please correct me if I am wrong), you are hoping that divorce papers will give her a "kick in ass of reality". I'm tempted to agree with you.

Exactly what the idea of the divorce papers is all about. The only problem is that I will be going down the DIY divorce route since we havent actually lived together for the past 2 years so there is no need for any input in it from her. This is what scares me. The first she will know about it is when she is notified by the court that she is now divorced. So I will need to let her know that I have actually signed the papers, paid my money and started the proceedings. I would have hoped that the threat of it may have kicked her into action....but not thus far.

I mean if she doesn't think you're serious, and that's why she doesn't bother to talk to you before Friday. Then being served those papers, might just be the slice of reality she needs.

Fingers crossed.

Is there some other possible reason for her not responding to save something that should mean a great deal to her?

If there is then i dont know what it is. Other than the fact she "thinks" she can do better than me. Or else the thinking in her head is that she can't provide me with a family (she STILL hasnt been to get tested), and doesnt want to stop me from having one. But this is of course only speculation. My truth rather than THE truth. Only she knows the truth.

I'm trying not to dwell on it, but i can guarantee that come Thursday night i'll be a quivering mess with worry. I had expected her to be in touch before now and she hasnt...so I guess once again...Actions speak louder than words.

I really dont want to get divorced from her...

[tiggerinlondon]

Originally Posted by Unca

No we havent sought councelling because she wouldnt speak to me about how she was feeling so there is no way she would speak to someone else. I have suggested it in the past but nothing ever came of it. But you are exactly right, there has been no effort from her part in the slightest. From what i can gather she has waited until someone showed her some attention and then decided to end it with me...its what she did the last time.

I remembered this about her views and counselling (when we last discussed it), I just hoped, somehow, she'd change her mind. Communicating our problems to someone who is trained to listen and help (even untrained and cares like friends is often useful!) is IMHO one of the best ways to get over the hurdles in life. No-one knows everything, we all need to learn and grow to get through everything and improve. If she won't let anyone help her do that then is she stuck and are you willing to be stuck with her?

Originally Posted by Unca

Nothing gets past you does it? But I probably did word that wrongly. I wasnt too keen on the idea of marriage in the first place, but since becoming married I have realised that it is the bond that should keep married couples together. It is what should make couples want to fight to stay together. But i should have typed "the love of my life" because thats exactly what she is.

I try not to miss significant things in the language of people. Unfortunately most of our communication is by body language and then by voice, so some of my skills are rendered null by the fact that we type! I just try to do the best I can and hope I'm helpful in some way...

IMHO that's right, marriage isn't a magic bit of paper. It should be "the bond" that keeps people together, marriage or no. If you say she is the love of your life, then I'd like to add to that statement "thus far". You don't know who you might meet and how many different ways they might touch your heart, mind, body and soul. So I'd say, she's only the love of your life, thus far.

Originally Posted by Unca

Exactly what the idea of the divorce papers is all about. The only problem is that I will be going down the DIY divorce route since we havent actually lived together for the past 2 years so there is no need for any input in it from her. This is what scares me. The first she will know about it is when she is notified by the court that she is now divorced. So I will need to let her know that I have actually signed the papers, paid my money and started the proceedings. I would have hoped that the threat of it may have kicked her into action....but not thus far.

Then my advice would be to copy your signed papers and paid receipt and staple them together and send them to her with whatever the US equivalent of "signature required" mail is! Then at the end she has no excuses.

Originally Posted by Unca

If there is then i dont know what it is. Other than the fact she "thinks" she can do better than me. Or else the thinking in her head is that she can't provide me with a family (she STILL hasnt been to get tested), and doesnt want to stop me from having one. But this is of course only speculation. My truth rather than THE truth. Only she knows the truth.

From my POV the thing here is, what can you do about her thinking that? I mean she's thought she can "do better" than you, before and possibly she thinks it now. Maybe she just doesn't have the capacity (at this point in her life) to realise what she's about to lose.

The whole thing about providing a family may or may not be a driving force or factor, but again what can you do about her thinking that way? In both cases IMHO it's not down to you, it's down to her, all you can do, is do what's right for you, in the given circumstances.

Originally Posted by Unca

I'm trying not to dwell on it, but i can guarantee that come Thursday night i'll be a quivering mess with worry. I had expected her to be in touch before now and she hasnt...so I guess once again...Actions speak louder than words.

I really dont want to get divorced from her...

You don't want to get divorced, but what are your other options here? Is there any avenue unexplored that you could take? Believe me, I'd be telling you now, if I could see one..

Ah, yes, those classics, "actions speak louder than words" or as Decartes used to say "To know what people really think, pay regard to what they do, rather than what they say." Descartes

Well here's another, by another great man "By all means marry. If you get a good wife, you'll be happy. If you get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher and that is a good thing for any man." Socrates

[Unca]

Originally Posted by tiggerinlondon

Communicating our problems to someone who is trained to listen and help (even untrained and cares like friends is often useful!) is IMHO one of the best ways to get over the hurdles in life. No-one knows everything, we all need to learn and grow to get through everything and improve.

Thank you for that paragraph. If I ever write the letter that I keep meaning to, I will be including most of that in it to try and convince her to speak to someone on her own, because as far as I can tell she STILL hasnt spoken to anyone about this because she knows they will all take my side and try and make her see sense.

If she won't let anyone help her do that then is she stuck and are you willing to be stuck with her?

Sadly yes. I am resigned to being in "unconditional love" with her. Even now i would take her back, even after breaking my heart for the second time.

IMHO that's right, marriage isn't a magic bit of paper. It should be "the bond" that keeps people together, marriage or no. If you say she is the love of your life, then I'd like to add to that statement "thus far". You don't know who you might meet and how many different ways they might touch your heart, mind, body and soul. So I'd say, she's only the love of your life, thus far.

Thank you for that, but I do still believe that she is "the one". For all her faults, and yes there are a few as I dont class her as perfect, I havent met anyone who I would even think about starting a relationship with over the past 11 years I have been with my wife, never mind marrying any of them. true I havent been in a relationship with anyone else, and I have been "out of the game" during that time, but I do believe that we were meant to be together. Deluded? Maybe.

Then my advice would be to copy your signed papers and paid receipt and staple them together and send them to her with whatever the US equivalent of "signature required" mail is! Then at the end she has no excuses.

I'm in the UK like you Tigger! I guess you hadn't heard of the DIY Divorce? I hadn't either until i looked up the process!

From my POV the thing here is, what can you do about her thinking that? I mean she's thought she can "do better" than you, before and possibly she thinks it now. Maybe she just doesn't have the capacity (at this point in her life) to realise what she's about to lose.

Thats exactly it. Or at least she doesnt want to admit to herself let alone anyone else that she realises what she is about to lose. I have pointed it out to her twice though that she wont find another me since we split up.

You don't want to get divorced, but what are your other options here? Is there any avenue unexplored that you could take? Believe me, I'd be telling you now, if I could see one..

I honestly dont know. Other than just leave it...and if one of us wants to get married to someone else in the future then we go through with it then. That however I think would just be prolonging things. But again...we dont know whats goign to happen in the future so I dont want to rush into things either. What if I go through with it, the divorce comes through in 8 weeks and then 6 months down the line she realises what she has lost?

Well here's another, by another great man "By all means marry. If you get a good wife, you'll be happy. If you get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher and that is a good thing for any man." Socrates

I'm loving that! Made me chuckle! Thank you!

And can I just go back to:

Did you expect to hear anything? Is she the stubborn type? Would she "cut off her nose to spite her face?

yes I did expect to have heard something! No-one can believe that i havent! And yes she is the stubborn type and would more likely cut off her nose to spite her face...but i didnt think to this extent where she would pretty much distance herself from me completely and have no communication when the threat of divorce is there...

Thanks for all your help Tigger! As usual speaking to someone, especially a trained professional like yourself is helping! :) How do I book a session?

[obx08]

Unca, I have no words which are worth anything on top of what tigger said...she pretty much has got it all covered...

One thing I can say is that we are all hoping and praying for you that this works out. I really hope this is just the kick she needs to get it into gear! *crosses fingers*

[tiggerinlondon]

Originally Posted by Unca

Thank you for that paragraph. If I ever write the letter that I keep meaning to, I will be including most of that in it to try and convince her to speak to someone on her own, because as far as I can tell she STILL hasnt spoken to anyone about this because she knows they will all take my side and try and make her see sense.

Then is that the route to go? If she's in need and can't see the way can you lead her, or get someone else to? Is there ANYONE she would trust to talk to? Can you get her friends or family to do an "intervention"?

Originally Posted by Unca

Sadly yes. I am resigned to being in "unconditional love" with her. Even now i would take her back, even after breaking my heart for the second time.

You see now IMHO that will end up getting you in trouble...believe me I know...

Originally Posted by Unca

Thank you for that, but I do still believe that she is "the one". For all her faults, and yes there are a few as I dont class her as perfect, I havent met anyone who I would even think about starting a relationship with over the past 11 years I have been with my wife, never mind marrying any of them. true I havent been in a relationship with anyone else, and I have been "out of the game" during that time, but I do believe that we were meant to be together. Deluded? Maybe.

No, I don't think you are deluded. You are in love. *sigh* and unfortunately that means only you will know when enough is enough! I don't think it's that point for you yet...

Originally Posted by Unca

I'm in the UK like you Tigger! I guess you hadn't heard of the DIY Divorce? I hadn't either until i looked up the process!

Sorry, I should have asked, no I've never heard of that. Mostly because, once people decide that, I'm out of the loop, they've stopped trying to resolve anything and decided to cut their losses.

Originally Posted by Unca

Thats exactly it. Or at least she doesnt want to admit to herself let alone anyone else that she realises what she is about to lose. I have pointed it out to her twice though that she wont find another me since we split up.

What concerns me is that you have to point it out! Is she trying to hurt herself? Could this attempt at pushing you away have something to do with her believing she's not worthy of you?

Originally Posted by Unca

I honestly dont know. Other than just leave it...and if one of us wants to get married to someone else in the future then we go through with it then. That however I think would just be prolonging things. But again...we dont know whats goign to happen in the future so I dont want to rush into things either. What if I go through with it, the divorce comes through in 8 weeks and then 6 months down the line she realises what she has lost?

Hmm...I'm not usually an advocate of deception, however I am wondering if you could get all the relevant papers and make it "look like" you have signed and done all the work and then send copies to her? Would that possibly achieve what you are looking for, without the actual process? Also, in reply to your question, so you get divorced and she realises her mistake in 6 months, what stops you from getting married again (after her sorting out her issues and building up the trust again)?

Originally Posted by Unca

yes I did expect to have heard something! No-one can believe that i havent! And yes she is the stubborn type and would more likely cut off her nose to spite her face...but i didnt think to this extent where she would pretty much distance herself from me completely and have no communication when the threat of divorce is there...

Maybe she doesn't think you're serious...or maybe she wants to hurt herself...or maybe she's just afraid... I can't tell without talking to her and even then it's a process of understanding, empathy, deduction, analysis and elimination. Hey, you're in the UK, where are you?! That's it, I'm coming to talk some sense into this women! (that's a genuine offer if you think she would...or if you can get her locked in a room with me...)

Originally Posted by Unca

Thanks for all your help Tigger! As usual speaking to someone, especially a trained professional like yourself is helping! :) How do I book a session?

I'm glad you think I've been helpful, I wish I could feel I was being. As for the session...well maybe if we could get her talking. Please let me know if there's anything I can do.

Furthermore, sorry about all the questions. You seem pretty committed to making her see sense and I'm keen to assist you in anyway I can (she does appear to need help); I just hope it's not a lost cause...lets think about it and see if we can think of way...or if any of the ways I've recommended are an option then lets try them, as I'd suggest you have nothing to lose.

Does anyone in her friends/family think this is a good idea? Is someone "on her side"? You said she's living with her parents, what is their view?

[Unca]

Originally Posted by tiggerinlondon

Then is that the route to go? If she's in need and can't see the way can you lead her, or get someone else to? Is there ANYONE she would trust to talk to? Can you get her friends or family to do an "intervention"?

She wont let me lead her, and from what i can gather the only person who may be leading her is her "male friend". I have only one option as far as getting someone to speak to her but its not really a viable option. Its her friend from years ago who talked sense into her last time, but she has just had a baby who AFAIK is still in hospital. She wont talk to her friends and family because she knows they will all take my side.

You see now IMHO that will end up getting you in trouble...believe me I know...

I know it would, but thats the way i feel! Obviously i would only take her back once a good few changes were made!

No, I don't think you are deluded. You are in love. *sigh* and unfortunately that means only you will know when enough is enough! I don't think it's that point for you yet...

Nope its not that time yet. And at the moment i dont feel as though that time will come. yes I feel better within myself, and I'm not thinking about her all the time, but everything, and I mean everything reminds me of her or something we have done together. I know this will fade in time, but the constant reminders dont help!

What concerns me is that you have to point it out! Is she trying to hurt herself? Could this attempt at pushing you away have something to do with her believing she's not worthy of you?

I laughed when I read this last night because you could quite possibly be right! Could she think she isnt deserving of me? I guess only she could answer that one...if she would ever talk to someone about this!

Hmm...I'm not usually an advocate of deception, however I am wondering if you could get all the relevant papers and make it "look like" you have signed and done all the work and then send copies to her? Would that possibly achieve what you are looking for, without the actual process? Also, in reply to your question, so you get divorced and she realises her mistake in 6 months, what stops you from getting married again (after her sorting out her issues and building up the trust again)?

Its a possibility. But as you said, there is nothing to stop us getting married again, it just seems like a real financial waste, especially since it was both sets of parents who paid for the whole wedding!

Maybe she doesn't think you're serious...or maybe she wants to hurt herself...or maybe she's just afraid... I can't tell without talking to her and even then it's a process of understanding, empathy, deduction, analysis and elimination. Hey, you're in the UK, where are you?! That's it, I'm coming to talk some sense into this women! (that's a genuine offer if you think she would...or if you can get her locked in a room with me...)

If I could get her to talk to you I would, but at the moment she doesnt think she has a problem. In much the same way she said the same thing 2 years ago. Right now she is lying to everyone including herself about whats going on and what she is thinking so its only a matter of time until she realises what she has lost...again! I would love it so much if you could speak to her as you make so much sense to me!

I'm glad you think I've been helpful, I wish I could feel I was being. As for the session...well maybe if we could get her talking. Please let me know if there's anything I can do.

You have been helpful, and thank you once again! You could try talking to her but there is no way in hell I could set that up so she wouldnt go on the defensive straight away like she does with me!

Furthermore, sorry about all the questions. You seem pretty committed to making her see sense and I'm keen to assist you in anyway I can (she does appear to need help); I just hope it's not a lost cause...lets think about it and see if we can think of way...or if any of the ways I've recommended are an option then lets try them, as I'd suggest you have nothing to lose.

yes I am commited because I know she is doing the exact same thing as she did 2 years ago! She is stressed at work, obviously having doubts about "us", and so she has started txting someone else behind my back, grown feelings for him...and then ended it with me in such a way as to try and not make her out to be the bad one again! Unfortunately for her she has been caught out again! As we know the first step would be to try and make her talk but she just wont do that, especially not if I suggest it as she is adamant she doesnt need to, despite telling me 6 months ago that she needed to speak to a professional!

Does anyone in her friends/family think this is a good idea? Is someone "on her side"? You said she's living with her parents, what is their view?

Her mum is on my side and can see what she is doing to me. She knows what a fool she is making of herself again. Her dad may think that but just lets her get on with whatever she wants to do because its his wee girl! Our sister-in-law is firmly on my side as well, so I am assuming that her brother is as well. I had thought her work friends that she goes out with werent helping but after meeting them and chatting to them in the pub tonight, she doesnt seem to be doing much talking to them either. I am just loath to trust them because they are partly to blame for her going out so much (they are all single).

So basically I dont know of anyone who thinks it is a good idea, except her, and probably her "male friend". Deja Vu of 2 years ago right enough...