Not sure if i'm falling out of love but.....

[dkd]

My relationship feels pretty stagnant.

It really stems from my partner and how she is towards me sexually.

I really love her and I think she feels the same about me. Well, at least she doesn't give away anything that would suggest otherwise.
The biggest issue is in the bedroom.
If anything sexual happens in the bedroom it's usually because I initiate it.
It's not always the case as she has initiated sex before but it's only because I hadn't as I wanted to see how long it would take before she would do it herself.
It took about 2 weeks in the end.
Now though I am losing interest as it has become a pretty one sided affair.

I haven't initiated anything for quite some time now and, as you can guess, nothing has happened.
It's been at least 3 weeks since we last had sex and two nights ago she actually tried to initiate sex.
The problem with it was that it was the same as before. A half arsed effort that felt more like a labour than pleasure.
It's like she only does it now to keep me happy but then if I take the reigns she gets well into it.

The thing that gets me the most is when it comes to oral sex.
If I give her oral pleasure she loves it but for me it becomes this massive effort and when she does do it, she tries to finish me off as quickly as possible.
Sometimes when I ask I practically have to remind her of how often she had it from just to get her to do it. If she will even then.
I remember when i asked her to go down on me and she was complaining as she pulled the covers back on the bed. I had a bit if a fit and said to her not to bother and rolled over and went to sleep.
The next night she started masturbating me and then pulled the covers back.
As she went to go down on me I stopped her and asked her why she was now going to do it off her own back. Not exactly the best encouragement from me I know.
She asked if I was complaining and that I was moaning about it last night.
As you can imagine this didn't go down well with me and I then told her to get off me.
I told her that I don't want her to do it because I had a bit of a moan. I wanted her to do it because she wanted to.

The thing is, the sex has become boring for me now and my interest has more or less gone.
I feel that to get any sex and any variation in position or type, I have to practically beg.
I mean, how many steps are their before pressure is then classified as rape?

Before we had kids we were always at it.
After the kids were born some 6 years ago it slowed a little but we still had sex pretty frequently.
Now it's next to none existent and even when the opportunity is there I just can't be that bothered anymore.
It's that bad that I don't even have the desire to cheat.

Our whole relationship just feels like a convenience and its really being held together because of the kids.
The strange thing is about it all is when she talks of marriage.
It's like in her mind everything is fine and that we're still getting married.
In my mind however, nothing could be further from the truth.
It's not that I don't want to get married to her but as things are now, I could not see how I could.

I have tried talking to her about it and the sex does improve for a while but then it always ends back up to the same low level of intimacy and sensitivity as it is now.

I may not be the best looking of men but I take care of myself.
I am also sensitive to her needs and I always try and make sure she has at least one good orgasm when we have sex.
I don't know what else I can do.

I am venting a little bit when typing this but I am in need of some good advice.

Thanks for reading.

[Dan72]

Hi dkd,


I have some questions if I may to help me understand things a little more:

1) How old are you both?
2) How long have you been together?
3) How many children do you have and their ages?
4) Do you/she work full time?
5) How are things generally between you other than sexually?
6) Do you do social things together often?
7) Other than about sex, do you argue much?

I look forward to your response,

Many thanks,

[dkd]

Hi dkd,


I have some questions if I may to help me understand things a little more:

1) How old are you both?
2) How long have you been together?
3) How many children do you have and their ages?
4) Do you/she work full time?
5) How are things generally between you other than sexually?
6) Do you do social things together often?
7) Other than about sex, do you argue much?

I look forward to your response,

Many thanks,

Hi Dan,

Thanks for the reply.
I've answered the questions by the number.

1) I'm 35 & she is 40.
2) Eight years now.
3) Two. Both 6 years old.
4) She's at college and I work full time.
5) Fine generally.
6) Not really as we're rarely able to get a sitter for the kids.
7) Not really. In fact, it's one thing we don't do as we both had past relationships that were pretty volatile so arguing is rare.

Thanks

[Dan72]

Hi mate,

Thanks for answering - it gives me a much clearer picture of what is going on here. Bear in mind that this is only my opinion, but to me the problem seems very clear.

I am around your age, and have many married friends who have been together equally long as you or longer. The single most thing that they (the guys) complain about more than anything else is the lack of sex. Of course there are always exceptions, but generally guys continue to have a high sex drive whereas womens tend to fade, especially after children. We all had a discussion about it once after a few drinks and the women just laughed it off, saying that they couldn't be bothered, were tired and just had little desire for it.

Now, for guys this is a problem since generally sex drive is higher. One of my guy friends has a long term F**k buddy because of this very reason. Not great, and I don't agree with it, however, he has just had enough of 'begging' for it.


From her point of view - you have young children who I'm sure take a lot of care. You work full time so she is dealing with them when you are working. You spend very little time enjoying each other because there is either no time or no sitter. So, in my opinion, what needs to happen is for her to feel like she wants to be intimate. For guys, we can flick a switch and bam - we're ready. For women it takes a lot more and if they aren't in the mood - they aren't in the mood. For guys, even if we aren't in the mood, we can be there in minutes!

So, how can she feel like she wants to be intimate? Create the scene, MAKE time for just you two, arrange romantic 'dates', pamper her and make her feel like she felt when you first met. Many couples get caught up in the day to day stuff and never make time for each other. How can she feel sexy looking after kids and dealing with the day and then just falling into bed? Women like to feel sexy before they can 'perform'.

It sounds as if your relationship is good, but you have just gone a little stale which is true of most couples over time. It's easy to take each other for granted and just go through the motions. It will be a chore for her if she isn't feeling it. This doesn't mean she doesn't love you (which is obvious from her talk of marriage), what it means is that she is trying to please you even though she isn't really in the mood. You need to turn this around and see what SHE needs to GET in the mood.

Spice things up, FIND a sitter (or arrange to be home to get them to bed early), cook her a nice meal, buy her something she wouldn't expect to make her feel loved. Don't make excuses for not making time to be alone if you are saying your relationship is in jepardy. This stuff is important to keep things alive and exciting.

In my opinion, this CAN be fixed - you just have to be prepared to put in a little work.

I hope this helps,

[dkd]

Hi dan,

You advice does help a bit.
The problem is, I get rejected that often that my drive isn't hardly there anymore.
In fact, when she tries it on I now pretend to be asleep just so I can get out of it because the sex has the same old lacklustre effort from her.
It's almost like she is more than happy to have sex so long as I do all the work.

It's that bad now that I dread going to bed early just in case she does try it on.
My interest is that low.

With regards to my work.
My hours are structured in such a way that I cram 24 hours in a single day/night.
When I finish and get home she is up getting ready for college and the kids are getting ready for school.
By the time I have to wake up I have around 20 minutes to get ready to pick the kids up from school and my partner gets home roughly 30 minutes later.
With the exception of my fitness training I do twice a week, at evening times, and her days at college, we spend the rest of our time together while the kids are at school or after they have gone to bed.

To be honest, I don't feel that wanted anymore and that isn't helping my sex drive.
I just think that sometimes I'd be better off on my own as at least then it would be because I'm single and not because I don't do it for her anymore.
Assuming that is one of the reasons why.

[Dan72]

I know what you're saying mate, but has it always been this way? Has she always only put a half hearted attempt into it? I can see why you would lose interest sexually based on what you have said.

It does sound like the spark has definately been dampened for both of you. SO common with busy couples these days. it's difficult to find the time to do anything other than work, eat and sleep, I get that completely.

In your first post, and I quote, you say 'I really love her', so would you really rather be alone than address these issues? In my opinion, it's not a case of not being wanted, it's a case of not having time to spend on each other to re-ignite that spark.

If possible, the time you DO spend together needs to be exciting. Occasionally something different from the norm, spontaneous and fun. I guess it really depends on how much effort you both want to put into making this work. If neither really want it to work,... it's a pointless battle.

Have you considered some kind of relationship guidance counselling? Does she feel the same about things? I know you've said you have spoken about it with her, but I think she needs to know how serious this is for you. That it could potentially be make or break. I actually don't think this is about sex, it sounds like it goes deeper than that.

[dkd]

Hi Dan,

No, she hasn't always been this way with, regards to the lack of effort she puts in.
The decline has been gradual over a period of months.
It's hard to pin it down but it comes across as though she has lost interest but is happy if I take the reigns.

I do love her and I wouldn't want to leave or be on my own but taking the rejections and the feelings of not being wanted physically I get from her are hard to take.
I am quite thick skinned and can take criticism so all she has to do is open up and tell me what the problem is so either we can, or I can, sort it out.

I have given some thought to counselling over the past few days or so but I doubt she will go for it.
She is one of those types of people who would rather stick their head in the sand and hope for the best rather than deal with the situation quicker and pro-actively.

I just don't want the resolution to be a temporary fix to something that needs proper healing.

[Dan72]

Absolutely - temporary is pointless really, and it certainly needs serious input from both sides and not just you.

If it's at this stage for you, a conversation is necessary. She needs to understand that the counselling is important for BOTH of you, and sticking her head in the sand isn't an option. If she doesn't want to improve things, I guess you then need to discuss THAT issue.

[Slick]

Hello dkd
Nasty corner you find yourself in, i see...
To be honest, i found myself in your shoes a while back as my wife was also trying to silently impose "This is your new sex life" to me. The worst part is i don't think they realize the pitfall they're steering the relationship towards by behaving this way. Now don't feel bad thinking maybe you should have warned before "going steady" that sex is important to you....my wife fully and in detail knew this one about me and she agreed with the importance of sex in our relationship prior to marriage, but as time went by, she behaved the same way in lowering the bar and trying to impose a "this is normal" standard to me. Also, i'm very open with my wife so she was fully aware, married or not, i'm not the guy to beat it around the bushes so bailing out wasn't a "hard thing to do" for me - I'll always choose "single but happy" to "together but frustrated". Like you, for a short while in my case, i'd try and reason or find excuses for her actions : long day, she's tired, she's worried, she's "not in the mood" all while gently opening the subject for discussion and happily accepting her promises that "it will get better". I'm sure you've been there and you can pull your own seismograph paper, look at it and say "Ahhh, i know those spikes, all came after promises and discussions.....i also know those dead-lines because they came after those spikes". I also belive you're past the phase where you've analyzed her schedule or daily routine and constantly got annoyed by "things she finds time/energy to do, but she doesn't find time/energy to have sex".

Also, raise your hand if you've had the pleasure of being in those shoes:
- sitting in bed like a sleepless zombie watching her fall asleep in minutes
- promoting to angry/annoyed sleepless zombie that nothing won't wake her deep sleep
- getting used that sex is a night-time activity only and patiently waiting for nightfall only to enter zombie mode above
- listening to her talking about future plans when you're thinking you can't see past next week in your future
- feeling bad when sex happens because a) feels forced; b) you finish fast due to inactivity; c) feeling bad you've finished fast due to inactivity
- you contemplate cheating but somehow deep inside you know that if you chose that road it won't become an alternate route but a full on speedway because you don't really feel you'll have reasons to return to her

In my case, it all came to a halt : why should i be the one trying to save a relationship if the other puts only lacklustre efforts and deploys drag tactics? Don't get me wrong, i love my wife and as a life partener, there's nothing i have to complain about. Now, there is a big pitfall about advices in this situation : honest and well intended as they are, if you follow the ones you're going to get, you're most likely to sink in deeper and i'll tell you why : a barking dog usually doesn't bite...guess who's the barking dog and who's not afraid of getting bitten? I hate to say this, but the time for talking has passed and all that talking does now is setting a new standard for "Oh, so i can get away with this also, there's no danger of him leaving, so i'm in the safe zone".

How did i (we) moved past this relationship killer? Well, we're not out of the woods yet but at least i can see some light and it's improving ... In the end it all comes down to what you want, my friend... I wanted my happy relationship back and wasn't looking for a new one... In my case, when that mental halt hit me, i decided to really put the pedal to the metal. It hit her out of the blue... one day, with no prior fights or even arguments, i just threw it all straight in her face: This is not working for me, you've mistaken my patience and will to make this marriage work for something else and you're going to hear what i have to say without saying anything until i'm finished because your words hold no more value to me. Then i explained her how i see our divorce, what things i want to take and what things we'll split and other details....if you're not willing to walk out the door, don't ever play this for intimidation tactics. I was so determined to end it that i even contemplated moving out while she's not home and settling it later. I'm dead serious when i say and i'll advice anyone to spill it all out because it's the last card you should be willing to play in order to save your relationship - no cutting corners, no sugar coating, just speak your damn mind to the tiniest details without letting her interfere. Maybe you haven't (yet) but i had that conversation play out in my head so many times prior to the real one, that i was already in the mindset "You had enough time to try and make US work and i've done my best to support it but if that was YOUR best effort then now I'm talking about ME, MY life, MY future and MY happiness". One thing i should warn you about is power-play...i don't know your girlfriend and how she sees your relationship but it is possible for her to try and force your hand, agreeing to a break-up because she's sure you won't have the balls to bail out....Friend, if she's willing to do that, save yourself the trouble and walk out. It didn't happen to me, my wife was really hit by how determined i was to end it all but that's mainly because i have a full on history of always backing up my words with severe actions. Our stories might seem similar as they converge on the sexual aspect, but while the two of you aren't married, we are and while you have children, we don't. It's easy for her to pull out a morality card on you saying "what kind of a man are you to let your children grow without a father or with an absent one?" but how do you think those kids will grow with a constantly frustrated, more annoyed at their mother as each day passes on,or a cheating father? What will they learn/think when they'll reach the age to be fully aware of the relationship between their parents? It's a personal choice, but i'll chose raising my kids as a divorced/split but happy and sane father, rather than an shallow actor posing as a happy parent.

Regarding my story, it was the last card being played...i didn't hear the same old promises or variations from my wife but a heartfelt and genuine enough to make me take a leap of faith, agreement to concentrate her efforts in fixing the problem. I ain't no daydreamer so i told her out straight that we won't have any children (something she desires very much) until i don't see our sexual life taking it's normal course and if she thinks we're talking a few months she can act her way through, she's dead wrong. Maybe in your case, her desire to get married could be your twisting point in getting the relationship back on tracks.

I'm not saying it's easy....it's been almost a year since that incident and things are almost back to normal but i must honestly warn you that if you don't plan on sticking to your guns you'd better save yourself the trouble and walk away now. Women will always try to test the water checking your confidence and if you're not willing to immediately shut down any attempt you'll be back to square one in no time. For us, it's normal now to have sex 3-4 times a week and at least once in the weekend, "normal" as in nothing seems fake, phony, forced or "let's get it done" but reaching this normality meant a lot of will from my wife, existing attraction that needed only a nudge, and a ton of involvement from me (you won't and shouldn't play "boss" sleeping on the spoils of the victory, but go half way in meeting her efforts).

Cheers, Mike

[dkd]

Hi mike.

Thanks for your views.
I had to chuckle nostalgically at your comment about losing sleep because of annoyance/frustration.
And not so nostalgically because of feeling inadequate because of not lasting as long as i would like due to the lack of activity.

It especially resonated with me when you stated how your wife talks about the future but you couldn't see past the week ahead.
That is me right now and it isn't a great feeling.

I think I will have to have it out with her soon however.
This issue is starting to bleed out into other aspects of our lives and I'm beginning to feel like I'm nit picking about all the things that really annoy me about her. Which is a lot lately.

It's even brought into question how I feel about her.
Like, whether I actually love her anymore.
And to feel that makes me sick to my stomach as she truly does deserve more.

Anyway.
Thanks again for your input.
It has certainly given me food for thought on how to approach this.

[dkd]

Well, the final straw has finally been taken.

In bed last night and my other half has got the horn and deep down I know that she feels something is wrong anyway.
(We haven't had the talk yet)

We're lying in bed and after an hour or so she starts caressing me.
Eventually, as she is lying on me, she starts to masturbate me and I'm thinking 'great. She's taking control for once."
I'm up for it anyway because it has been near 6 weeks since we last had sex.
And no. Six wasn't a typo.

Anyway, as she is masturbating me and caressing me I notice it was getting slower and slower.
Eventually it stopped altogether.

You wouldn't believe it but she had only gone and fallen asleep on me.
I didn't think for one moment that I had become that boring or our relation**** (again not a typo) had sunk to this new low.

I moved her off me and just watched the tv for a while.
She didn't even bother to ask what was wrong. She just went back to sleep.

Right at that point I was ready to just get up and sleep in the spare bed.
Obviously this has gotten to me and obviously we're going to have to have this out.
The hardest part is trying to not let my emotions get the better of me when telling her the problem and not make it seem as though I'm being intentionally hurtful.

Drama.
Don't you just hate it.

[Slick]

Well dkd...if the episode above happened, i'd say it's time to hit the brakes...
You are true about the hardest thing being not turning the discussion into a frustration frenzy pressure valve ... the only advice i can give you regarding this, is to play it ahead in your mind a couple of times. You know her to a certain degree so at least you'll be able to anticipate some of her answers and have a bag full of momentum gaining answers. If it's one thing this discussion mustn't be, it's "debate". I'll repeat what i've already said : speak out all what's bothering you, don't let anything out, because left-over topics will eat you out in time and will buy you a free passage in "What If's" Land.

Also, honestly, and please take some time thinking about it before answering, what are the odds you see of this getting fixed?
a) You know her, do you see her willing to commit and concentrate on this aspect ?
b) You know yourself, do you see yourself willing to have the patience for this problem to get resolved?

Those are two important questions i see...one of them is out of your hands, but the other one is still as important, because i'd suggest knowing for sure where you stand prior to opening up the subject. Is it a genuine "I want us to work this out" discussion you're planning, or a courtesy "I owe you this" masked goodbye one ?

Cheers, Mike

[dkd]

You know what mike,
In answer to your last question. Feeling as I do now, I have to say I simply don't know.

Though I have more than enough patience to see this through, I just don't know whether I want to now.
What happened last night was an all time low and I'm beginning to wonder whether its me or whether this whole situation is making believe it is.
I don't think it's me but if it was I wish she would just say so and be done.
That way, we can either move one or separate.

Whatever goes on I must be composed and straight to the point. No holds barred.
I know it will upset her but at least she'll know how I feel and where I'm at in our relationship.

[dkd]

Thanks Tigger.
It certainly gives me some food for thought.

[dkd]

Well I've finally drafted my letter (all 2 and a bit pages of it) and have now got to revise it a bit before I give it to my partner.
It's taken me a few days but its almost there.

Last night presented a problem though.
We were lying on bed and my partner asked me, and I quote "Do you fancy a bit of rumpy pumpy?".

Now, as you can imagine, this wasn't what I was expecting as an initiation of sex. But if my partner didn't think there was something wrong before, she should know now.
I just deflected it and didn't give a response.
In fact, what I did do was leave the room and made myself a cup of tea and just thought about how this letter of mine really needs to be given to her.

As I stated above, I just need to word it correctly before I give it to her and hopefully it won't blow up to far out of proportion.